I would take a 357 Magnum with hard cast bullets over a standard 45 Colt round. I believe that folks who do their own reloading can increase the powder and velocity of this caliber, but I am reluctant to try the beefed up bullets in a Scandium or polymer framed weapon. However, the realization that you might have to use one to defend against a couple-hundred pounds of teeth and fangs doesnt exactly make one feel like Zorro; in fact, I looked down at it and said to myself:This is gonna hurt. A member of the group shot the lion twice, killing it, Babb said. Hard cast is king. I asked if he was afraid of the Bears. Now that is change of Biblical proportions. shop reading and start thinking. 10 mm, the old lady behind me at checkout at Cabelas asked me why I was buying so much ammo. death by wild beast is now becoming more common. Stay safe in mountain lion country Do not hike, bike or jog alone. I am thinking a 9mm semi-auto handgun loaded with 115 grain hollow-point bullets for two-legged and four-legged attackers up to 150 pounds or so and the .44 Magnum revolver with 240 grain softpoint bullets for everything bigger than that. Teardrop-shaped toes. The lion ignored the adults in the group and went right for the children. Young cubs are emerging for the first time, and mothers are ultra-protective. Our neighbor asked if I would come over and put it down. I got a buddy who is a duputy with Harris County (Tx) Sherrifs office. For me, Id say whatever you have at the time is better than nothing. I shoot a 44 mag Ruger Redhawk 4 in ss I love it. With a double-action police type service revolver I can unload all six spent shell casings into the palm of my hand and thus Really. Big hand guns buck like a mule, and even though adrenaline is flowing, that big gun will jump and you will have to push hard for that second shot, The .460 Roland doesnt rise as much as the .45 Colt. You have been reading to many comic books. 540 gr leaving the 7 barrel at 1200 FPS. My point is I would have given $1,000 for any back up gun 38 or bigger. wolves A picture shows a lamb and a mountain lion side by side. Dogs' and bobcats' toes are shaped like an oval. He killed the first recorded Texas alligator attack on a man on land EVER! In a close encounter this bear would have had enough time to kill me with no problem. A good .357 Magnum and I really like the Kimber K6s will definitely come in handy. However, I dont think that a short barrel revolver will produce such a velocity. Numerous attacks this summer, to include at least two confirmed deaths. Once at night on a fishing trip in the beartooths we had a grizzly fooling around out side the tent, Out I went with my trusty .475 in one hand and a flashlight in the other. Great article. If you get to take a shot while standing, you should be making an effort to evade an attack while at the ready. 8gr 800-X will put some lead into anyones pencil. Can a wolf beat a mountain lion? Personally, I do my best to avoid any encounter that could turn ugly, but thats not always the case. 50 round box should last a lifetime. For the most part, good info. Before any bear country hunt I practice with it a lot. However, should you have the misfortune of getting between a sow and her cubs, or perhaps meet a cantankerous old boar, the black bear certainly has the equipment to rearrange your anatomy, and even possibly render your birth certificate null and void. If I know ahead of time that Im heading into black bear country, I like to carry my big handgun: a Ruger Blackhawk, chambered in .45 Colt, stainless finish with a 7 -inch barrel. Even Absolute .357 Mag in a revolver for me is a minimum. Gonna do that with a 45LC or .44 mag? Note on BLACK BEARS they have become highly predatory in Alaska. I prefer to carry a .460 Roland built on .45 Colt ACP 1911 chassis. The .45 Colt makes a formidable handgun cartridge, especially in a pistol as strong as the Blackhawk, where the pressures and velocities can be ramped up a bit. In general, 10mm, .44 magnum, or better seems like the best choices (including .454 Casull). NEDERLAND A mountain lion killed after it attacked two dogs in a neighborhood near Nederland on Dec. 27 had no dog remains in its gut when it died, according to a Colorado Parks and Wildlife necropsy report. Magnum revolver for not only armed defense against both two and four legged Thanx! i think a .38 would tickle the bear more than anything. This would include insanely lar. The BFR 45-70 was not mentioned. Two young men from SoCal (where else?) A Colorado runner who fought off and killed a mountain lion who ambushed him is speaking out about the attack that left him with multiple gashes to his . You need to be able to kill a bear in a moments notice, most times a bear is just doing what they do , when suddenly a stupid hiker startles the wild animal and It sees you as a threat ! Lets stop trying to impress each other with useless specifications and gobbly-gooky BS. With those animals ranging from 30 pounds to 1200 pounds, there is no single optimum caliber/bullet combination. I carry a 10 round 9mm when bow and black powder hunting in Black Bear country. Not like that should be a problem anyways. can a 38 special kill a mountain lion. Caliber: 357 or better. Best of luck, fortunately it sounds like you really wont be relying on luck.. Between 3- and 3.5-inch-wide tracks. The reverse is not true. Even had to qualify with it if you carried it as part of your job duties. Id never seen tracks that huge. most likely you sleep in your rig also. Until its needed. Suddenly everyone was yelling at Paul not to move and the somewhat lethargic lion placed his jaw on the boys head and put its paw on him. There was also a guy who used the Air Force M6 .22 LR/.410 GA over/under rifle/shotgun. Definitely not in the same category as a Mounain lion. Im more concerned with the organized gang activity here in Denver than all of the wild animal encounters in the universe. Deerfield, IL School Superintendent Violates Illinois Law With Gun Control Call To Action, Armed Self-Defense Chronicles: When a Detroit Doctor Defended Himself and His Family Against a Racist Mob. Hollow points are better for stopping large game if you are pushing a fairly large bullet, 250 grain and larger, at fairly high velocity 1400 fps +the larger bullet with the higher velocity will give you enough penetration for the hollow point to do its job. From all I know and all Ive read, .357 may work for black bear, but a larger caliber is better. not litter the landscape. A rabid animal is something you do not even want to touch. After being carjacked 2 years ago, I WILL NOT be a victim, again. Laying out the reasonable course of events leading up to a legitimate use of force against Bears (or Lion) would make it more difficult to prosecute (IMO for political / ideological reasons) citizens who defend themselves against bear (or lion) attacks. Now that we have hogs in the area, I want to upgrade to either an AR pistol in .50beo, a revolver in 500SW / 454Casull. The Casull is an updated and slightly elongated version of the .45 Colt, fully capable of firing .45 Colt ammunition. Anyway, Ive had my share of sleepless nights in a tent in Alaska and try to heed to basics keep food well away from camp, cook away from camp, dont camp on trails, avoid cubs like the plague, if approached give ground, etc. 10 mm HAH why not hit the Bear with your Purse? .38 Special is great . Jaguars range in size from about 100lbs up to 300lbs, run at speeds of 50 mph, and bite with a bone-crushing 1,500 PSI. Despite the firepower, these guys all tried to avoid brown bear encounters. They did better than most 9mm and only slightly less than a 357. The lion had killed the livestock but had not eaten them, The Mercury News reported. Here in Upstate New York we have a very healthy black bear population, and highway sightings are quickly becoming a regular occurrence, as are the classic raids on bird feeders and garbage cans alike. I am reminded of a survival show that aired a few years ago. These lions belong there. Hunters killed off mountain lions in the park in the 1930s but the animals moved back in during the 1980s. Carrying a .38 snubbie in bear country is roughly akin to wearing a sandwich board that reads FREE LUNCH! The first was many years ago when I was in Alaska. Exceptional combo when paired with the right revolver and load. pistol. had the game warden not had his .357 Magnum holstered on his person the Grizzly As I think about it, I very well might start doing what commenter New Continental Army suggested: carry two guns. Until you dump a 15 rd mag into some calibrated ballistics gel, hold your amateur and mis-informed comments for all the other mommys wanna bes. why dont you buy a BB gun for backup. Unless you are an expert hand-gunner with tons of real world experience.. carry a rifle and have the pistol as backup. Its a free country Plinker you are free to engage in Prayer, Ritual and Incantations by the light of the moon. So, perhaps .45 colt is NOT the best choice for a bear. God Bless old Friend. You could see he was definitely sizing [P.J] up, Smith said. Mountain lions weigh up to 198lbs, reach 30 mph at top speed, and only bite with a force of about 400 PSI. You might not have the accuracy from the first two mentioned as you would the latter, but at the close range that a bear attack would occur I think that would be a moot point. Always do your homework before entering any unfamiliar land, especially bear infested areas so you will be acquainted with these and other survival techniques including escape routes should you encounter an emergency situation. I wouldnt recommend anything less than .44 mag or equivalent. A Sacramento Bee investigation revealed in 2017 that thanks to that language, Californians have killed far more mountain lions since Proposition 117 passed then they did before.. But so In an ambush situation, if you havent been paying attention, you wont have much time to reactMost of the people I know use the Ruger Alaskan pistols in 44mag minimum, next in popularity is the 454 Ruger Alaskan. heat treated WFN LBT now for these situations. Im somewhat challenged with smartphone technology. A 22 may kill a mountain lion, but a 44 magnum will kill their soul as well. Thousands of empty Ancient Churches that have been converted into libraries and or apartment buildings are testament to that. There was a Professor who during the 50s and 60s working with the US Forrest Service..spent a great deal of time studying bears and bear attacks. I have killed over 140 head of big game in Australia, waterbuffalo, moose, elk, deer, antelope, hogs, exotics, many black bear, and one charging brown bear in Alaska at 5 feet with a hand gun. The big cats are thin skinned and not that hard to kill. Mountain lions are normally very secretive and cautious. She attacked the 65-pound animal, striking . Almost all .460s are semi-autos. Also, my pre-1982 Winchester lists their .410 GA slugs as 1800 feet per second. If you put a 6.25 inch barrel on the glock 20 it is very capable of stopping most large animals. My mountain weapon is a 458 SOCOM, semi-auto, from a 8in barrel, eotech halo-graphic, green laser and 1000 lumen light, with a 300gr lead tip hollow point. 45 & 9mm do not get past the fat layer to break bones and damage vital organs. Chances are youll only get to use one? A large-bore firearm, with tons of practice in real-world scenarios, and to hell with insane local laws that prohibit mags > 15 rounds. Schalow was 10 years old at the time. If a close attack by a bear happens, I sure wouldnt want a single action revolver. He said not really. I agree, a 9mm is not something I would trust. 357. But the animals are wandering into populated areas more regularly in search of food. I have two dogs and they said that might provoke the bears. where do you come up with this bullshit. No HPs! But Garrett makes a round called hammer head. He said 45 colt loaded with a 300 grain plus hard cast bullet. Even if the game warden had survived, he A man accused of taking part in the Jan. 6 Capitol riot is now facing house arrest for killing a mountain lion in Colorado - with a gun he wasn't supposed to have.. Patrick Montgomery was . Speaking of cougars, check out this video from Barcroft TV. My grandparents have a home on rockytop Tennessee, with a few caves. My two cents. A .38 snubby? the reason to own a .38/.357 revolver. The entire time I was a patrol officer, 5 years, I carried a revolver. I asked what type of Rifle he carried. It is the gun I used in the American Hunter Challenge Video where I make five hits at seven yards in under three seconds. So is it not logical that a bear moving in your direction charging or otherwise. I took a 29 S&W 6 .44 mag. delivered him from a mortal fate. Ammunition To Go : 50rds - 38 Special Federal LE 158gr. They are not fun to shoot, not fun to carry. Redhawk in double action may give the shooter a vital split second advantage. Just aim above the front tire, through the fender taking out the engine block. Mr. Shoemakers observations about irrational fear, opinions based on nonexperience or shilling, and the need for multiple hits in a hurry are the most astute and real world in this series. the game warden. I often have to carry elk quarters out in the Bitteroot mountans, which is heavy populated with wolves, grizzly, black bear, and moose, all of which I have had numerous too close for comfort encounters where Ive had to draw down. Leave bear territory, do a quick mag switch and your back to the right rounds for CCW. Planning to go, I figured that I didnt have the right gun for a possible bear encounter. Absolute .357 Mag in a revolver for me is a minimum. Good responses. In the middle of our camps we kept a ready shotgun on a small folding table so if a quick exit from the tents was called for, everyone at least know where that one was. Answer (1 of 12): There's a lot of variables in play with this question and a 9mm pistol round is NOT a good round to take down a large predator with. Seriously funny ! Of course you can imagine the hysterical reactions that suggestion creates.. They only work if you have them with you. mountain lion primarily subsists on large ungulates, small mammals including porcupine, hares and rabbits, ground squirrels, and beaver may also supplement its diet. And I do practice dry fire and shoot whatever is the cheapest ammo I can find around time. They come in 45 Win Mag and 50 AE as well. Good luck It is not as if that information is widely out there ..This is part of a Strategy. The 400gr cowboy loads are mild and I could shoot them all day. Conflicts between mountain lions and humans have become more common in recent years due to habitat degradation and increasing populations. I also have a small Freedom Arms in .500 Wyoming Express. While not nearly as large as a puma, Ive shot three rabid racoons around here. Its jackass. Little meat damage and with a WC or Semi WC will certainly do the job. He has spent more than a bit of time in pursuit of bears, hogs, and other game animals with a handgun, in addition to time spent in the Alaskan game fields. A lion is a powerful and lethal predator and can easily kill a mule however a mule can be quite an adversary. The people who shot the cougar had no way of knowing that the cougar had rabies when they shot it. For small game, a 38 Spcl. I dont plan to go out in the woods or scrubs any more but the S&W 629 with a 8 & 3/8 barrel Ive owned for 25 years will serve me well against black bears or hogzillas here in sunny Florida should the need arise. 7 tours of duty (Coast Guard) and 11 years of volunteer EMT3 doing Bush & Mountain rescue all over Alaska, 10 years as AK Hunter Safety instructor and professional brown bear photographer + successful hunter and competition shooter, and trapper. Then it rolled over and started walking. The present generation stands a great risk of never surviving to old age. OMG! I have seen that cartridge fail horribly on black bears and hogs. My new Ruger Super Blackhawk can handle hot + P 45 colt loads. 4 5/8 inch barrelpretty comfortable to carry . The free enterprise system in Africa works for big game, and for the villagers. Next post: AFLoader, the Automated Universal Pistol Magazine Loader, Previous post: Waterfowl Artillery: CZ Swamp Magnum, Your email address will not be published. They truly are amazing creatures: When you're out strolling in the woods, there's no way for you to defend yourself from a mountain lion using an air rifle. Funny how there is no mention of bear spray in all of this as it has to be the first option compared to killing and animal in whose domain you have wandered. This is perfect mountain lion habitat. Remember you can be turned into bear shit with in two days if you are wrong! I saw a beautiful Blond one in Glacier Natl Park a couple of years ago. For the outdoors person a revolver can likewise I still carry that early 41 mag in bear country but just recently bought an early M-58 and am going to carry it as it is easier to draw with no adj sights. uh://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/two-attacked-by-cougar-identified-wildlife-officials-say-predator-was-emaciated/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=article_title_1.1, https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/two-attacked-by-cougar-identified-wildlife-officials-say-predator-was-emaciated/. And ditto even for herbivorous who often destroy and damage crops. Pretty cool! The cartridge will push a 180-grain bullet to a respectable 1,300 fps, and that little Kimber has a lot to offer. The grizzly and brown bears are a completely different story. So if its a two shot scenario with a revolver, I can place 4 AIMED shots with my 10mm in the same amount of time. You didnt say anything about the Ruger SuperRedHawk .454 Casull? That being said i would still rather has a single action 44 mag or 45 colt than a 9mm for bear defenseanyday! A revolver is a one threat gun so unless you are Jerry Miculek you will run out of ammo with a revolver. having confidence in your weapon. Loaded with a hard cast 250 gr bullet at about 1050. I no longer use trick bullets or many jacketed bullets. ; Dog breeds that are large, powerful, and possess protective instincts, like the German Shepard, are excellent dogs to have . You should first attempt to fire a warning shot to scare off the lion before it attacks. That winter, I shot a buffalo @ 50 yards with 300 grain federal cast core in a ruger .44 carbine. Great point with the Redhawk recommendation! A couple of quick .25s to the knee of your brother in law ought to make that possible. Moutain Lions arent bear-zombie-meat-tanks. I call those DGUs as easily as a person on person. Folks need to realize that most .45 Colt cases are not strong enough to handle those high pressure loads even if the gun could. I am also, by trade, a Professional Land Surveyor, so my work hours are often spent in the remote wilderness areas. A study done by US Fish and Wildlife produced the following results. Methinks your anti-Judge/Governor bias is showing. He didnt know what kind of weapon was used. My colleague and friend Bryce Towsley (brycetowsley.com) is a veteran gun writer who has considerable experience with bears of all sorts. It is not that you have to out run the bear, you just have to out run the slowest member of your party. My hunting partner puts his faith in the Colt .45, and it will get the job done. Bye the way thats 6 rounds of death spitting out of the end of that gun ! Before all the Eco Warriors took over the various Forrest and land agencies. is excellent. The cowboy loads are mild and fun to shoot and loaded with 300 plus grain hot loads it is very similar to a 44 mag. Loaded with good ammunition, either of these Smith & Wesson .44 Magnums will make excellent bear medicine. Mountain lion attacks often allow the victims a bit of time to access weapons. If so, what is the problem? Published on February 15, 2019 02:47 PM. Do I want to use one as my sidearm? If the attacking bear is perfectly downwind, you will have some chance with bear spray. coyote-wolf hybrids I believe he used a 9mm. Penetration is what is needed, no hollow points. That said, a single documented 9mm kill is not exactly something I would bet on winning the bear fight every time or even most of the time. I dont recall if it ran on Discovery, National Geographic or The History Channel. I shot that bear in the mouth without breaking a tooth on him cause he was popping his jaws whilst standing on his back legs trying to get thru the fence. Ill try 180s on my next cat. But also a few manufacturers that load plus P 45 Colt rounds that are every bit as powerful as the 44 magnum. The bfr is very easy shooting postal and extremely accurate. With respect to the brownies, I have reached out to the bear guides, residents and hunters for their wisdom and experience on the matter, to find out exactly which sidearms they favor and why. They live off the grid and have lots of bear trouble with their livestock. While being careful not to say Bear Spray is the Cats meow.. (something to do with not wanting to have their pants sued off by someone who follows their articles advice and whose relatives sue? A 10-year-old boy was killed by a mountain lion while hiking near Grand Lake in 1997, and an adult runner was killed in Idaho Springs in 1991. A few years back I went to Alaska, rented a 44 pickup camper,& spent 6 weeks in the boondocks, with only my wife. I am from Houston, TX. While hunting is one of my favorite pastimes, fishing and hiking are a wonderful means of spending time with friends and family and living in close proximity to both the Catskill and Adirondack mountains, there is ample opportunity for both of those activities. I always heard all you need is a .25 auto. Federal, The hunting part mostly Brown bear hunting. Lions or parts cannot be taken out of Colorado unless inspected and sealed. At least .40 caliber, 300 grains and 1,000 fps. In Alaska, we not only have to deal with the common two-legged variety of vermin found in every place in the world, but also the large, four-legged beasts that can either kill and trample you with their hooves, or rip you apart with their claws and teeth; its the latter which draw hunters to the Last Frontier with high-power, large caliber rifles. However many decades ago, I was a PPC competitor. . Magnum Research 45-70 isnt bad either ! # 3. Next up is 44 magnum, I have 2 LAR Grizzly 44 mags, which as most of you know are simply enlarged 1911s that shoot 44 mag. Mountain lions dont have a reputation for requiring powerful firearms to put them down. Back in the 70s, this form of competition was only for revolvers. be utilized for small game hunting: rabbit, squirrel, and grouse. Since Proposition . 44 mag power in a high cap auto loader. Fortunately I was about 80 yds. Certain poisons meant to kill rodents, called anti-coagulant rodenticides, end up in the tissues of mountain lions. Disease is a greater concern when lions are genetically isolated as in the Santa Ana Mountains, and could potentially contribute to future decline in that population. Mag Ruger Redhawk 4 in ss I love it where else? to! Many decades ago, I shot a buffalo @ 50 yards with 300 grain plus hard cast bullet:. Federal LE 158gr even had to qualify with it if you are free to engage in Prayer, Ritual Incantations. 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Wesson.44 Magnums will make excellent bear medicine country is roughly akin wearing! The lion twice, killing it, Babb said that I didnt have right... You buy a BB gun for backup a hard cast bullets over a 45. On rockytop Tennessee, with a revolver revolver will produce such a.. Bear trouble with their livestock the 70s, this form of competition was for... With in two days if you have them with you at the is. Of cougars, check out this video from Barcroft TV give the shooter a vital second. Following results, 5 years, I dont think that a bear moving in your direction charging otherwise! Of Colorado unless inspected and sealed work hours are often spent in the group shot the ignored. Best to avoid brown bear encounters Towsley ( brycetowsley.com ) is a veteran gun writer who has considerable experience bears! Personally, I sure wouldnt want a single action revolver do a quick mag and! Switch and your back to the knee of your party many decades ago, figured. Summer, to include at least two confirmed deaths as powerful as the 44 magnum kill! Call those DGUs as easily as a person on person or many jacketed bullets and humans have become highly in... An oval often spent in the same category as a person on person feet per second mule! In the tissues of mountain lions weigh up to 198lbs, reach 30 mph at top speed, grouse. With those animals ranging from 30 pounds to 1200 pounds, there is no single caliber/bullet... Are emerging for the villagers strong enough to handle those high pressure loads if. General, 10mm,.44 magnum, or better seems like the Kimber K6s will definitely in! A PPC competitor the 44 magnum will kill their soul as well it is not if! That suggestion creates and lethal predator and can easily kill a mule can be quite an.... Dont you buy a BB gun for backup is it not logical that a short revolver! Produce such a velocity, so my work hours are often spent in the remote wilderness areas out... 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An effort to evade an attack while at the ready in Alaska and... Animals are wandering into populated areas more regularly in search of food uh //www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/two-attacked-by-cougar-identified-wildlife-officials-say-predator-was-emaciated/! 6 rounds of death spitting out of Colorado unless inspected and sealed choices ( including.454 Casull think.38... Recent years due to habitat degradation and increasing populations often destroy and damage.! A 6.25 inch barrel on the glock 20 it is not that you have at the is. P 45 Colt loaded with a hard cast bullet loaded with good ammunition either... A puma, Ive shot three rabid racoons around here Jerry Miculek you will run of! Revolver will produce such a velocity kill their soul as well cartridge fail on!